Clipless peds...

[Syborg tt]

Until you've mashed a slow steep climb while pulling up in clipless pedals, you won't know how much they help. I don't think they help that much when spinning, but for mashing there is no question.

Okay simple question

If you were to run up that exact same hill would you aggressively pull you knee's up to your chest ?

Chances are no - why because it would exhaust your legs.

Trust me I understand what your saying when it comes to resting your legs by pulling up on the pedals and not pushing down. We've all done it and it sure feels good. However push-pull is not very efficient way to make your legs move. Just try running in place it's exhausting.

[IllinoisRider]

Okay simple question

If you were to run up that exact same hill would you aggressively pull you knee's up to your chest ?

Chances are no - why because it would exhaust your legs.

Trust me I understand what your saying when it comes to resting your legs by pulling up on the pedals and not pushing down. We've all done it and it sure feels good. However push-pull is not very efficient way to make your legs move. Just try running in place it's exhausting.

You're still not getting it.  I'm not talking about resting or being tired, I'm talking about mashing and putting the most power to the ground when climbing out of the saddle (read: 20 RPM pedaling up a steep climb in a single speed). Your body only weighs so much, and on a bike you can't put much more force than your body weight down onto the pedal.  However, by pulling up while also putting your full body weight onto the opposite pedal, you increase the torque at the wheel beyond what itself gravity permits.  It's simple physics and it works.

You can't compare running to riding a bike. However, to play devil's advocate, yes, i would pull my legs up to my chest if I was jumping over a 3 foot diameter log at the top of a steep hill.

[Jeff Hanson]

Okay simple question

If you were to run up that exact same hill would you aggressively pull you knee's up to your chest ?

Chances are no - why because it would exhaust your legs.

Trust me I understand what your saying when it comes to resting your legs by pulling up on the pedals and not pushing down. We've all done it and it sure feels good. However push-pull is not very efficient way to make your legs move. Just try running in place it's exhausting.

Simple answer...no.

Because pulling your knees up while running does not assist in the push off of your down leg.  While pedaling in clipless pedals, you are actually benefiting from the power of the pull on the upstroke, which is complementing the downstroke of you opposite leg.  I ride with some strong riders that run flats, and it's on the long, steep climbs that I pull away running clipless.

[Syborg tt]

Simple answer...no.

Because pulling your knees up while running does not assist in the push off of your down leg.  While pedaling in clipless pedals, you are actually benefiting from the power of the pull on the upstroke, which is complementing the downstroke of you opposite leg.  I ride with some strong riders that run flats, and it's on the long, steep climbs that I pull away running clipless.

Are you sure your just not a better climber ?

[r0ckh0und]

I have ridden both flats and clipless extensively and there is no doubt in my mind that clipless pedals give you a mechanical advantage while spinning, mashing, climbing, bunnyhopping, logovers, etc. Road riders used toeclips for many years prior to the invention of the clipless pedal.

[IllinoisRider]

I find I climb fastest after I've eaten one wing and two legs of fried chicken.  This too is scientific fact.

Liv_Rong can confirm this.

[Huckster McPlush]

I find I climb fastest after I've eaten one wing and two legs of fried chicken.  This too is scientific fact.

+1

[Ballickarkingofthefairies]

OK THATS IT, YOU'VE ALL RUINED BIKE PEDALS FOR EVERYONE!!!!  YOU LEAVE ME NO CHOICE I HAVE TO TAKE ALL OF YOUR PEDALS.  IF YOU CANT PLAY NICE W/ YOUR PEDALS THAN YOU CANT PLAY W/ PEDALS AT ALL!  I HOPE YOUR ALL HAPPY.


And for what its worth clipless are the way to go because I ride clipless and I'm better than you.  End of discussion.

[scotto370]

Wow a lot of good input on the subject.It definatley seems to be a touchie subject.I do understand the push down and pull up concept and yes it does work because i did a little road riding with old school toe clips so i understand how it works.My main concern is being able to get my foot off the pedal fast enough if needed.Thanks for all the good input on the subject.I will most likley stay with what i know,at least for the race and that would be platforms and then experement with clipless after the race.

[fattyr_Jr]

I have ridden both flats and clipless extensively and there is no doubt in my mind that clipless pedals give you a mechanical advantage while spinning, mashing, climbing, bunnyhopping, logovers, etc. Road riders used toeclips for many years prior to the invention of the clipless pedal.

That's like saying training wheels give you better balance.

[mikeo]

I have ridden both flats and clipless extensively and there is no doubt in my mind that clipless pedals give you a mechanical advantage while spinning, mashing, climbing, bunnyhopping, logovers, etc. Road riders used toeclips for many years prior to the invention of the clipless pedal.

I have ridden both as well and think flats are better for bunnyhopping and logovers (if you use proper form).  Clipless + wide 29er mud tires would be ideal for the current palos conditions though, they would allow you to really dig into the trails for maximum damage while spinning the rear tire at a high RPM.  

[ridingillini]

I found that clipless pedals taught me to commit to getting through technical features rather than putting my foot down.  If you're going to go clipless then you need to make the decision soon and get some miles in.  I'm concerned that 35 miles a week on the bike path won't be enough - try to see if you can put in more miles and get to Saw Wee Kee (and Kettle if possible) more often.

[Yeti Clyde]

Once again, it's not spinning that clipless pedals help with.  It's mashing at very slow RPM, the kind where you could STAND on the pedal and not go anywhere, but add some upwards pulling force and you finally crest the summit.  There is no debate over this.

I'm back on flats this season....

Hate to disagree w/ Illinoisrider,  the advantage is not as great as you claim   ....

I've read ton's and rode both on and off for a long time....

There have been ongoing heated clip debates in the BMX racing community since pro riders showed up clipped in the 90's....

If you do some research, it's not just internet BS....

There are some really well documented sources out there....

 

[Benflow]

Clipless pedals don't make a rider super-human faster.  But they do offer a small percentage more power.  That small percentage can add up over a long ride. Or in a race, when a minute difference in your finishing time over the course of a two hour race could mean first place or 15th, you want every percentage you can get.  I don't think anyone disputes that clipless pedals are equal or greater in power transfer over flats.  So if getting the most power to the pedals is your goal than clipless is the way you want to go. Even if that difference is 1%. 

I listened to Bike Jame's podcast... 90% of what he was saying was that people get hurt because of clipless pedals (primarily beginners) and that they shouldn't be given to beginners.  I agree that a rider should cut their teeth and learn how to MTB on flats before moving to clipless.  That just makes sense.  But you don't need to be a 'pro' to use and benefit from clipless.  He seemed to be on a crusade to prevent shops from putting beginners on clipless pedals. And he's right in saying that. However, as a side note, I don't personally know anyone that ever bought their first MTB and had clipless on it. 

One other thing to consider about clipless--in relation to the type of bike you ride.  If you're on a hardtail, or rigid bike, you loose less power from standing and mashing on the pedals (like you do with flats).  On a dual suspension, it's paramount to pedal smooth circles if you want to be the most efficient.  The gains in power and performance on a dual suspension are even greater than on a hardtail or rigid bike.  Now, of course, if you're the type of rider who just likes to jump on his dual suspension bike and ride around for fun and don't care about performance, than this wouldn't concern you.  And if you prefer the added mental relief that you're not clipped in and you're willing to sacrifice a bit of power out there, then flats are for you. 

[sommerfliesby]

Wow a lot of good input on the subject.It definatley seems to be a touchie subject.I do understand the push down and pull up concept and yes it does work because i did a little road riding with old school toe clips so i understand how it works.My main concern is being able to get my foot off the pedal fast enough if needed.Thanks for all the good input on the subject.I will most likley stay with what i know,at least for the race and that would be platforms and then experement with clipless after the race.

Everyone's main concern is getting out of a clipless pedal.  Unless your motor skills are severely inhibited, by the second time you ride, this concern will be GONE.  Getting in and out of clipless RAPIDLY becomes second nature.  Its REALLY easy.  You have a ton of time before the Meltdown.  If this discussion was happening like a week before the race, I'd recommend staying with what you are comfortable with.  However...being that its over a month away, I'd say give the clipless a try.  Ride them on the bike path.  Practice clipping in and out.  You might fall over once or twice, but most people that I've seen do that at extremely low speed...and even then, only once or twice before "getting it."  Keep in mind, you can set the tension on most models.

Since you are open to both...bring both sets and a pedal wrench out to the trails.  I'd suggest riding to the bottom of Gravity Cavity, turning around, and riding back up with both pairs.  See what works for you, and go with it.

And as suggested, try to get more than 35 miles per week...you'll need the fitness as there's a lot of climbing on the Meltdown course.