Gardens were dissapointing

[Yeti Clyde]

It takes a different skill set to run the jumps in a trails style layout and it's not the same as what someone is going to be used to if they come from a racing or skatepark background. Y

 

[keithzim]

I did a little bit of work over at the PBP and when you hear complaints, it's Cambr policy to get defensive and I did the same thing as most people in this thread. But then I realized that being defensive prevents any of the riding spots from evolving and getting better so things get stale, new riders get turned off, and things end up being run and ridden by the same 5 people over and over again.

I've heard that same complaint regarding the jumps from 95% of the people who visit the garden. The same way most people who visit the PBP complain about the quality of the lips and quality of the dirt. People complain about everything, but some complaints are valid.

Eventually, when you hear something over and over again, everyone else is probably right and you're wrong. It's like if you own a shoe store and hate Nike shoes so you don't carry them, but everyday people come in and ask for Nike shoes. Eventually you'll realize that maybe you need to carry Nike shoes.

BTW, the garden has some great riders and they build some amazing jumps so this isn't a knock on any of them, it's more a knock on the Cambr culture that prevents things from evolving and getting better. I spent nearly two summers at the PBP and talked to all kinds of riders and virtually everyone who visited the garden said the same thing. The same way everyone made the same complaints about the jumps at the PBP.

It's not really rocket science to figure out what people would like to see at both places so the choice is to either get defensive or try to make the spots more appealing to everyone and bring new riders into the sport, which I believe is the "goal" of Cambr, or at least I saw that written in one the flyers.

But chances are people won't realize what I'm trying to say and they'll get all defensive even over this post.

A+ 

[mikeo]

What would need to be done to obtain approval to build an additional line off the back or side of the starting mound? I know a few people that would enjoy medium sized jumps without super steep lips.

[Seanbikes]

We probably wouldn't be able to go to the rear of the start hill but an additional intermidate line going the same direction could be possible. 

The key is volunteers.  The goal is to make a park that everyone can enjoy.  The diggers do have some discretion though since it's their time and labor that makes it all possible. 

If any comments were interperted as CAMBr not caring about everyone's opinion I appologize and want to stress that is not the case at all.  What is really needed is ideas and help making them a reality. 

I guess what I'm really saying is a lot more can be done when the message is "Hey I would like to see something different and here's how I can help"

[baudler]

No one understands the political hurdles that have been jumped though to get it to this point.  More time has been spent behind the scenes than on the park.  Insurance + tools + everything else = gotta raise money.  Legit = red tape.  Nothing is going to change that (in IL, at this point in time).  If you want freedom, you need to go rouge somewhere hidden where the land owner won't see it.  Someone will see it at some point though and in come the bulldozers.  It's either red tape or bulldozers.  Or move out of IL.

[mikeo]

No one understands the political hurdles that have been jumped though to get it to this point.  More time has been spent behind the scenes than on the park.  Insurance + tools + everything else = gotta raise money.  Legit = red tape.  Nothing is going to change that (in IL, at this point in time).  If you want freedom, you need to go rouge somewhere hidden where the land owner won't see it.  Someone will see it at some point though and in come the bulldozers.  It's either red tape or bulldozers.  Or move out of IL.

http://www.pinkbike.com/video/213049/

...

[RJ2]

the garden started as only doubles. the table line got started last year, and those were medium doubles that got filled in. These are the first complaints I have gotten about the lack of intermediate stuff. defensiveness was not the intent of my response, but more of a inquiry as I do not understand the complaints from the posters. majority of our builders ride BMX and like doubles. the table line has progressed this year, and will progress more this season, and for sure next season.

[wrench]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/a2LoojJmeh8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[euroford]

http://www.pinkbike.com/video/213049/

LOL, okay, the grass is always greener on the other side...

so i'm the guy marked as "retired" on the garden website, because i DID move out of illinois, i gots me the winter park season pass to prove it.

out here in this neck of the woods, we have a LOT of totally awesome stuff to ride, but we absolutely DON'T have some totally sweet flowy dirt jumps through the woods, and i've never had more fun at a pump track than i do on the gardens pump track.

[mikeo]

Hehe, valmont has an in ground sprinkler system for the jumps and rainmaker is probably the best trail I have ever ridden.

[Seanbikes]

Valmont is just amazing.  I wouldn't be surprised to see something like that in the Chicago area in the future

[superawesome]

the garden started as only doubles. the table line got started last year, and those were medium doubles that got filled in. These are the first complaints I have gotten about the lack of intermediate stuff. defensiveness was not the intent of my response, but more of a inquiry as I do not understand the complaints from the posters. majority of our builders ride BMX and like doubles. the table line has progressed this year, and will progress more this season, and for sure next season.

Like I said, my post really wasn't aimed at the builders at the garden who do build some great stuff, it was more aimed at posts like Baudlers. This thread was about beginner jumps and he comes in and talks about insurance and red tape which is makes no sense in the context of this thread. Nobody was talking about going rogue or building jumps that are not approved. It's also somewhat rude to always imply that guys who choose to dig are incapable of understanding the bureaucratic or  budgeting aspects that are involved with maintaining a riding spot.

Anyway, just wanted to be clear I wasn't knocking the guys that dig at the garden.

[RJ2]

No worries.... lets ride bikes!

[wrench]

The mission of the Chicago Area Mountain Bikers is to educate bicyclists, promote responsible trail use, prevent trail closings, maintain and build multi-use natural surface singletrack and freeride cycling opportunities in the Chicago area. CAMBr seeks to promote trail and freeride bicycling through stewardship, environmental and social responsibility, education, and a spirit of cooperation among all trail users, the conservation community, and governing bodies.

[Seanbikes]

Thanks for the feedback. We hear you that there could be something in between the pump track and the intermdiate line as far as skill level.  We'll see what can be done to address that.

Just a reminder that the best way to ensure you get what you want from a volunteer organization is to be a contributing volunteer.