What does horse poo and poison ivy have in common?

[IllinoisRider]

As a mountain biker, I appreciate what a pain it is to try to avoid horse poop. As an equestrian, there is no easy way to clean up. It would require dismounting, and bagging it, then carrying the bag....It would be a tough sell. It would require dismounting and it's difficult to remount a horse on a trail, both from a logistics stand and a safety stand. Holding onto the horse while trying to turn around on a trail and cleaning up it's poop? ~Also not an easy task. Carrying the poop? I don't think you're going to convince anybody to carry the poop. It's the wood; bears do it, deer do it, hopefully people don't do it there. Luckily it biodegrades really quickly, especially with mountain bike tires running over it. Maybe we could all learn to jump it likes it's a root in the way? 

Mountain bikers volunteer hours of their time monthly maintaining these trails.  We sacrifice riding time to do this.  As an equestrian and a mountain biker, would it kill you to walk or maybe even ride the trails AFTER a horse ride and pick up your horse droppings?  Even if you just tossed them to the side this would make 99% of the trail users happy.  I can understand that it may not be appropriate to pick them up while actually on your ride, but it's unacceptable to just leave them there indefinitely. 

Also, like MetalFace said, there are other options to make sure the horse poop never even gets on the trail in the first place.

[tihsepa]

I agree with tossing it to the side. I dont care if the poison ivy has horse poop on it.

[jmohler]

Horsepoop on the trail?
Ask the Equestrians stop and bag the SH!T
About the same as some zealot from the Sierra Club asking us MTBers to stop and put the rock that just shot
up and dented our downtube right back where it came from. 
Come on folks. We are mountain bikers.
Suck it up. Part of the deal when you ride a multi-use trail.
Treat the piles as just another challenging element to the trails.
Otherwise slap the spandex back on and hit the road.

[fat-tyr]

This is crazy... no easy way to clean up... why not use those poop bags that are used downtown Chi by the horse and buggy outfit...is it that hard to purchase a poop bag, put it on your horse and then empty it when you leave??? Also as a fellow mountain bike rider, are you actually serious in trying to justify leaving pounds of poop on the trail because it biodegrades quickly> ESPECIALLY when mountain bike tires run over it???  That is ridiculous as that is the problem which is being complained about, we don't enjoy running over it.  But really why are the laws about picking up your pet/animal waste in the forest preserve only applicable to dogs?  If your dog poops on the ground and you do not pick it up, you can receive a ticket and/or be fined... this should apply to the horse folks as well, and if it is not realistic or safe to dismount and mount on the trail then it should be required that all horses should wear poop bags while in the forest.

+1 Anyone who brings an animal on public property should be responsible for disposing of its waste properly.

[kevin marley]

I agree with Jmohler. it's all part of the deal.  Sometimes in life you get a little horse crap in the face.

[Seanbikes]

These seem like a good idea http://www.bunbag.com/ but it really ins't that big of a deal. Dog poo is so much worse than horse poo.

[adhd-tv]

how and why is dog poo worse than horse poo?  isn't poo... poo?  and when did dealing with poo on the trails become part of the mountain bike experience?  can i poo on the trails and not pick it up?  isn't there some kinda of camping mantra about how you should dig a hole and bury your poop if a proper toilet or outhouse is accessible?  bun bags would be the answer and would resolve the problem but it sounds like the horse folks think that the poop will just biodegrade so why should they bother cleaning up after themselves?  i guess a little consideration is all it would take. 

[captainjoon]

how and why is dog poo worse than horse poo?  isn't poo... poo?  and when did dealing with poo on the trails become part of the mountain bike experience?  can i poo on the trails and not pick it up?  isn't there some kinda of camping mantra about how you should dig a hole and bury your poop if a proper toilet or outhouse is accessible?  bun bags would be the answer and would resolve the problem but it sounds like the horse folks think that the poop will just biodegrade so why should they bother cleaning up after themselves?  i guess a little consideration is all it would take. 

I was actually tempted stop, drop my shorts and do this next to a pile of horse droppings...

It probably wouldn't have done anything to get anyone's attention but thought that someone as loony as me would catch the message I was trying to get across...
or at least find it funny.

[black_box]

As a mountain biker, I appreciate what a pain it is to try to avoid horse poop. As an equestrian, there is no easy way to clean up.

excellent, a multi-use trail person!  thanks for providing insight into the problem from the horsey side, cooperation and shared use requires communication obviously.  

I can understand if dismounting is not desirable during the ride from a safety viewpoint (probably harder for people to pass too).  What are your thoughts on the poop bag? or making a sweep of the trail after the ride when your horse is safely... umm.. parked?  Sweeping to the side should be fine, is that possible from the horse if you had something like a polo stick?

[SmplyCmplx]

Here I am again! The non-bike rider. I so enjoy coming to these forums to gain information about Saw Wee Kee. I'm there at least 5 times a week. Sometimes I'm alone, however, most of the time with my dogs. I love the trails. All of them. Just depends on the workout I want that day!

I just wanted to add my two cents about the horse doo doo. I've seen some excellent points here. Both from people for and against the clean up of horsey doo doo. I, being a dog owner, and a hiker, find the waste to interfere with my general enjoyment of Saw Wee Kee, which, we have established, is for the enjoyment of ALL. I do not find it enjoyable to walk along a trail and step in a large green clump of doo doo. I pick up my dog waste and dispose of it. The only time I have not is in the dead of winter, when noone else goes to the park, and the dogs are off leash and they let loose in the woods, literally speaking :-) Should they decide to have a movement even within 10 feet of the trail, I find it my duty to clean it up. Just responsible pet ownership IMHO.

I'm a fan of the idea of horse riders going back onto the trails and sweeping the doo doo off the direct trail. Then, it can decompose on the forest floor, and not my shoe.

Just sayin..... 

Oh, and I just realized how fun it is to say horsey doo doo hehe


LEAVE NO TRACE!!!!!

[Principal (Snake) Skinner]

I'm glad we're getting viewpoints from more than just mountain bikers on this! I find that coming across the droppings of one horse isn't much of a nuisance—even though I too have ended a ride and wasn't happy to find that I was wearing some of it. There's at least a fair chance that you can find a path around it if you're paying attention to what's in front of you.

Now for an equestrian group ride, where the chance of a dookey minefield being laid behind them is pretty good, I can see expecting the bunbags to be used—just like there's a difference between dropping a cigarette butt on the ground, and dropping a dumpster-load of garbage. You could say that Leave No Trace means not dropping the butt either, and you'd be right. But the practical side of me says, what's the likelihood that, even with a sign to require it, all equestrians will use the bunbag? About as likely as convincing all smokers to not toss their butts on the ground. So... if you can peer-pressure a rider into wearing a helmet, it's possible equestrian group ride leaders can peer-pressure others into using the bags. And that would be a tremendous help to all trail users, assuming group ride leaders would get on board with this.

I'll look into what the city has to say about this, though it might be an uphill struggle to get them to commit to a rule that they have no manpower to enforce.

[Jimmy S.]

As a person who picks up dog poop on a weekly basis, I know a lot about his poop situation. Mountain Bikers, such as cambr members, do their own share of damage to the trail. This damage can be caused by them, or other equestrians. Regardless, Cambr West, other members as well, go out nearly every Sunday and repair the damaged trails. Now about the horses, I'm sure most people know what I want to say (I HATE THEM) but I'll keep a mature attitude and tone towards this subject.

So I'll enlighten everyone with my equation.....

If dogs are considered pets.... and dogs poop.
Then when a dog poops... in a public place (such as SWK),
One must pick'th up thee poop.
So if horses poop... (fairly larger then dogs) then horses must be considered pets.
Therefore one must pick up horse poop.

HORSE = VVERY EXPENSIVE PET

Or try this....

Mountain Biking is very similar to Horse Back Riding. A mountain biker sits upon the seat of a bike and pedals himself/herself around various locations. Horse back riders sit upon a cushioned saddle that rest upon a horse. The horse simply moves along the trails, with the rider on the horse. I see one problem, Mountain bikes do not poop? So I intend to fix this problem, since horses can poop, and some don't believe in picking up after horses because they're not a pet. I will simply make up for my mountain bike not pooping, by pooping while riding. And of course not picking it up along the way. Seems to me like a similar situation.

All I'm saying is take responsibility of your $15,000+ mountain bikes, you rarely ever see cyclist taking dumps along the trails.    You rarely ever see hikers, runners, hunters, deer, rabbits, ect, taking dumps on trails. Happy Saturdays, I'm enjoying mine in the library out at Wa Wa, have to ride home soon.

[jmohler]

Lets not forget that 75% of the trail at SWK was built by equestrians.
They don't spend a lot of time on maintenance because most of them prefer
trails more rugged than we MTBers do.
I know that some equestrians (and bikers for that matter) view the work CAMBr
has done as "sterilization" of the trails, but they accept it.
Do I like them leaving horse poo on the trail. NO!
But it's just part of the deal along with mosquito's, ticks, poison ivy,
paint baller invasions, 4th generation campers, the sound of weapons being fired
and some of the best darn trail I've ever ridden.

[baudler]

I agree with John, the equestrians built the trails in the 60's, they are very nice people and very appreciative of what we have done.  We are on their turf and should not forget that.  The IMBA solution sounds great.  Also, I would never expect them to put the crap catcher on their horses.  The poop is our issue, not theirs.

The equestrians at SWK are alright in my book.  They are good old country folk, they are not rich people who think they are in style by riding the equine.  They bought me and Russ some beers once and they were alright.

I have a great solution.  Start to see the horse crap as an opportunity.  Bunny hop the piles and you will improve as a rider.  Eventually you will thank them for the poop on the trails.  In the meantime, don't get mad a the horses if you can't hop a small pile of poop.  And don't forget how funny it is to ride through a pile and throw some up on your buddy behind you.  Why do you think I always lead at SWK?

[Jimmy S.]

i know, i was just giving my input on horses.

as far as the 4th Generation Campers. Those people back there are far more than 4th generation, and they kept it in the family tree too.